Episode 305: Reading the Room: When Behaviors Don't Match the Words
Another fabulous day right here on this edition of Around with Randall. I love today's subject as each episode, each podcast, each week, however you listen to them whenever you listen to them is a deep dive 180 minutes into one particular subject matter to talk about the challenges in fine tactical solutions. And we're going to elevate a little bit, or maybe pivot and not talk about the details of philanthropy, but we talk about the details of people, and this is more about internal than external.
What we're going to chat about today is trying to figure out why people say one thing, but mean something else. And what in between can help you figure out what's actually going on. And this is really a amateur psychology view. And when I say amateur, that should probably be capitalized because I am not a psychiatrist, I'm not a psychologist, just my own experiences.
After 30, 35 years of doing this, in reading people and seeing people and dealing with people in figuring out what's actually going on. This stems from an interesting situation with a client where the leadership of the organization is in one particular person, acting in ways that would indicate when I on in meetings with him in conversation, I can quickly read some things, but I'm not there all the time.
And then when you deal with some of the people that are working around this individual, they're seeing and hearing things differently. And turns out maybe was my one lucky day that I could predict kind of what was going to happen, which led us to this conversation around how did you know what was going to be next? Where did you see all these things?
Which brings us to the ideas that people don't always say what they mean and that there are hidden behaviors, fears, things that occur that you can't quite always understand or know, but are influencing that behavior. The reality is, is that the reaction of people actually may be more true to what the actual truth of the matter is, than it is what they say.
And this visual, visual kind of behavior of a deeper concern around anxiety or lack of trust or loss of influence, uncertainty, embarrassment, all are driving people's decisions. A leader who suddenly starts saying one thing and doing something else, or changing what they really are trying to accomplish, is really an indication something else is going on. And the real, I would say, positive outcome is trying to figure out exactly what's going on so you can help them help yourself up the organization.
This isn't about power and control. This is about finding commonality, finding ways to work together. And so today we're going to really spend some time thinking about the communication at two levels what people say and what they do and what might be motivating them to actually be acting the way that they're acting. So let's start at the top.
We'll kind of build our way down to the tactical, I think six tactical things that you can think about in the interpersonal relationships, the dynamics, the things that you witness in this process. We have to start with a general premise. And this is not a negative. It's just the way life is, is that people will protect themselves. The first thing that I would advise when you start these interesting moments where trying to figure out where someone is and what's going on, is that they're going to protect themselves.
More often than not, there's not a lot of people you'll run across in your personal or professional life that will give unto you more than they do protect themselves. This is important for several reasons. Number one, it really is an indication of where your faith and trust should lie. It's really in, I think, an enhancement or a endorsement of the importance of a spouse or significant other, parents, children, and a very limited number of close friends that when I look at, as an example, my wife.
I know that she would dump her own self-interest to support me, and I would hope I would do the same for her. The point being is that it's not many relationships that you can really trust, that there's legitimacy. And that doesn't mean they're saying agenda, that doesn't mean it's negative. But people will protect themselves when people feel threatened or uncertain, when they feel exposed or embarrassed, protective behaviors come out whether or not they say these things or not, and it becomes a matter of control.
Control and this is the key, is safety. When people feel like they're in control of a situation or scenario, they feel safe in this process and thus can act more freely, naturally, in aligned with what they say. But when they lose that control, things like aggression brings out a sense of vulnerability they're fearful over. Analysis can delay the thought of an uncomfortable situation.
Agreement to quickly can be done to combat conflict. The conflict, the the the the uncomfortable decision, the idea of, of aggression, of, of risk are all basic things of control. And that's when behaviors differ from what's set. People will communicate this idea of this cross nature. They may say one thing because it's the right thing to say, but their actions are totally different.
You just won't hear. Many people say, I'm afraid this will fail, I feel threatened, I don't trust this. There's a problem. I'm worried about losing influence. I'm scared to lose my job. Think about the number of times that you've said those things. And I can say not many in my case, not because variance, but because there are not many people I trust that much.
I mean, my wife think about the I think about the conversations we've had, I say in the bedroom, but that we tend to matriculate there. The kids have gone to bed. It's quiet in the house. It's just the two of us. How often I talk about the things that are the most fearful to me, because that's the place I have the greatest amount of trust, the place where I value that relationship and that, that, that, that safe zone to be who I am.
People can experience these emotional reactions before they fully can explain why they drive. It drives them. So remember when we were talking about the idea about aggression and withdrawal and over analysis and agreement, things that may or may not be true to what they actually think, because people sense and can feel the situation, they actually will create these reactions before they actually have a chance to think about it.
So let's take a couple of minutes and talk about some examples of where these things really lie. Really where we have a scenario in which we have someone who is acting differently than might be. Their verbiage says one could be that overly controlling leader. Maybe there's the visibility of being more approvals or more meetings or more involvement in minor decisions.
And this was along the lines of what we were dealing with, as I mentioned at the top, that we had some issues around really interesting involvement in things that really did not rise to any level or because of the lack of understanding, really got involved in places they shouldn't have and cause more problems. I very much figured out very much that this came from the idea of anxiety, that there was a sense of I don't quite understand everything that there should be in this situation.
So it's a loss of control and a fear and an anxiety of being not being valued, which I could then see what the actions were going to be, but I could understand. And maybe it was because distance gave me a perspective. The fact that the anxiety was creating a sense of actions that were about control. I I'm still in charge.
No, you're really not. And so increasingly controlling leaders usually are. There's some type of fear behind them. There's a control. Like I'm losing sense of being able to influence the things I used to be influencing. Maybe some one second one who controls or the person who has a lot of change in ideas. All of a sudden they start questioning everything and finding flaws and pushing back repeatedly.
Maybe they say yes, and then they come back later and say no. It tends to be that I find these people are feel like they're excluded or unheard or threatened by the direction of an organization. It's the idea of this lack of control is a challenge about how they're perceived in the role that they're in, and I've experienced this personally when I knew there were some job changes coming.
I can think of twice where there were things that were occurring that I had a sense that maybe I wouldn't be in that position sometime in the future. And we can in both cases, I don't think they really have anything to do with me, but they affected me. And at the end of the day, that one and the same kind of in terms of what the outcome is going to be, I began to challenge these notions because I felt like I was losing control again.
It's the behavior. It's and it doesn't mean that this person is a bad person, but a natural reaction is, is they're going to do what's in their best interest to try to move forward or to keep moving in the way that they're comfortable with. If you have someone that's suddenly quiet, they pull back in their participation. They ask a lot less questions.
All of a sudden, everything's just okay. They may feel unsafe, even challenging things. They can see the writing on the wall, and they've just decided that, you know what? I'm not going to be agreed. All of this. Here's this funny thing. I've experienced this with a couple of individuals that I've had, had to deal with or had to work with.
Their silence wasn't actually approval. It was a sense of retrenchment or withdrawal. And it can offer lot to get me to get them to come out of that shell. So it's another way of looking at it. Maybe you have someone who begins asking a million questions and they start stagnating. Process. They're talking about budget and staffing and outcomes and timelines and accountability.
You're like, we've covered all of this. You've never asked about any of this. This is really getting down to trust. Do I trust you? Do I trust the people involved? Do I trust the situation? Lack of control. And what they're really asking is, are we doing the right thing? It's not the fact that facts alone are going to help this situation.
The situation may be bigger than the particular scenario you're dealing with. Maybe there's someone who is holding on to decisions. This was another part of where we started the podcast. I was mentioning. Little challenge is, is that all of a sudden meetings were being a rescheduled, there was a request for more meetings and more information, more analysis.
They were moving decision dates because I think they could see some of the things that were going to happen. There was a fear of the decision would have a negative effect on them. The key point here is, is delay itself is actually communication of what they're really believing. Maybe there's someone becomes entirely agreeable. They always say yes all of a sudden or sounds good or it's no problem, or I can handle that.
Well, if it's not their norm and not their area of expertise, this the fear of disappointment, disappointing leadership conflicting with the thought of accomplishing something. Maybe conflict avoidance would be a better way to put it. The idea is, is that there's actually not agreement in that the the agreement that they may be saying actually isn't the commitment or capacity for what they want to accomplish.
One more to think about. You might have a scenario where someone becomes incredibly defensive, find that's interesting with kids. And that doesn't mean if you find this an adult that makes them kid like. I think it just comes more naturally because kids worlds are expanding so quickly and there's so much less control. They become defensive when I fear, when I feel that or sense that, then that reaction is bigger than the apparent moment or issue or a challenge or whatever we're dealing with.
The underlying issue is probably something dealing with did I accomplish what I needed to? Is there more to the story? Are they a fear of criticism or security or personal identity? The intensity of the overreaction may be the visible part of what's the whole piece of all of this? These are all examples in the work setting. Could be in the personal setting as well, where I've learned to sit back and watch.
Now, one of the things that is not part of the six, but I will start when moving in towards the tactical is is that it's taken me a long time. I'm a verbose person. It's not that I like my voice as much as I think my voice has. Sometimes things to offer that could, solve problems more quickly.
I see through things, and sometimes that gets me in trouble, because then I'm worried about what I'm saying and not realizing what's going on around me. So the biggest part of this is the more you talk, the less likely you are to see these signs because you're more focused on what you communicate rather than what other people are communicating.
Without the verbal words that go along with it, you have to be willing to sit back and watch and be willing to listen. And I have to be candid. That is a challenge for me at times. But when I get into the tactical, if you're not willing to do that, none of these tactical things really work very well.
And so let's start with the premises. We move into tackle. How do you figure these things out? How do you work through them? How can you identify them more clearly? I gave you, I think, 5 or 6, seven different examples of moments where the action doesn't match, possibly the words or the intent that somebody articulating six tactical things, kind of with a cover, with a cloud, with a kind of a broad rainbow over willing to listen, you have to pull back a little bit to see what's going on.
So let's start with number one. Number one is, is that you have to look for the change in the behavior when things are really doing going well. If things are people feel good about what the situation is, they tend to match what their verbiage or verbal cues say. It's the change and in the circumstances. We started with the top of the show.
That's what began to happen. Everything was fine, everything was fine. There was no problem. Then there was a moment where there was a realization and the behavior changed. Really, what we're talking about is what is the normal baseline activity or behavior? And then what changed? The key here is you have to be able to figure out they used to do and say this.
This was kind of the standard behavior when things were normalized. Now that behavior has changed. Well you have to be have a realization first of all to understand that. Then number two, in that same vein, be able to realize it and be paying attention to it. Number two is disproportional reaction. Now, I mentioned that in a couple of the seven areas or seven examples, but it's the disproportionate action you're looking for where something doesn't match up.
There was a circumstance here recently where there was something that was very benign. It just wasn't that important. It wasn't even really a decision. It was just kind of like, we're going to go do this. And the reaction was incredibly disproportional. And that's when I began. It was one of the first things I began to realize, the discomfort that what was going on with this particular individual, that there was a challenge here, that all of a sudden, this disproportional nature, this emotional kind of overreach, was like, we're not that far.
And by the way, I think this is also, I think about my kids. And maybe you have the same when the kids react disproportionately to a benign quiz that maybe they didn't get the crate they wanted, or a friend situation that really wasn't that big of a deal. These aren't long term scenarios. Nobody, you know, kids being kids.
I'm always asking, wait a minute. What else is going on? What else do I don't? I know what else are they dealing with the same principles here. And again, this does not equate an adult to a kid. What it is is behaviors. Their natural, their human. Your job is to try to figure out if there's challenge, what's causing the things behind the scenes, and how do you deal with them.
So number two, watch for disproportionate reactions. Number three is listen to repeated themes. When people repeat the same things. That's a almost an unrealized tell that something's wrong. And then you can begin to figure out what is it that they're actually dealing with. Why are they saying this over and over? Usually it's the fear, the loss of control, the impetus that they tend to say often over and over.
They're not saying it bluntly, like, well, I'm really concerned about that. Their behavior deals with it. And they say or do things consistently to try to overcome that challenge. So when you see repeated references to risk timing, reputation control, accountability, cost uncertainty, those are the moments where you can look in and see, wait. These are repeated indications of what this person is thinking or dealing with.
Number four this then turns into the action part of the tactical steps. Lean in. Ask questions. Questions like what concerns you most about this? I mentioned the benign decision was it wasn't even a decision. It was just something we were going to do. And there was an overreaction. And that was the question I posed. Tell me what concerns you have about this?
Because this isn't that big of a deal. And what it did was it allowed me that it opened up the door to for me to realize, I think maybe sooner than some others, that this person had great insecurity about what was going on, that there was a loss of control at an epic level from their perspective, and as a result, they became difficult to deal with.
What would make you more comfortable could be another question. How about what do you think the biggest risk is in this? What's the downside? What would you what would need what what do you need to make yourself feel better about this decision or to make you feel better about where we're going? How would we get you to help us?
By supporting this? What do you need to do that this kind of one level deeper thought by asking some questions will illuminate a lot for you so that you know what you're dealing with. And that's also okay. Number five, test your assumptions rather than assume them.
This one I love. I think I've gotten pretty good at it because it saved me a long time, but it sounds something like I hear your concern about this.
Is there a larger issue that we could work on together to make this more successful?
That puts the person who's demonstrating things that they're not saying in a position where they have to make a choice. Am I going to help you or not? Am I going to help us or not? Am I going to help the situation or not?
In various instances that I can think of, some of, most of which I'm not going to talk about? None that would be attributable when I've done this in the meaningful way. And frankly, it very did it. I did it very little early in my career. It was more later. What I found was, is that I could get people to do one of two things.
Either one was a choice get on board or get out. Or if they had authority, illuminate the hurdles that they were placing in front of us or me.
I hear what you're saying about X. Is there something else we're dealing with that I don't quite understand that we could figure out together to make this all work. If you just do that, when you sense all of these different behavioral moments, what you'll find very quickly is a spotlight, a flashlight on the issue, or that the issue can't be dealt with because they're not willing to.
Number six, create enough space for the real issue to emerge. This has to do with what I was talking about earlier, about not filling every moment of silence, giving space. After you say something like, I hear what you're saying about X, is there something else we're dealing with that we could work on together to make this all work is to give time for there to be an answer.
Now, most often what I'm talking about is five, ten, 15 seconds where there is silence. It's kind of like making an ask in the. The old rule is the next one to talk loses. Or if you talk, you're not going to get the gift. There's a lot of science in behavioral kind of behavioral studies about this. Sit back and let give them a chance I can tell you what they're evaluating.
They may come across in different ways, but it's the same basic premise. Do I trust you? Do I trust the people in this room? Do I trust the situation? Do I trust myself enough to become vulnerable? Are they willing particulate their particular concern? And that takes a lot of depth in a human being. It takes a lot of depth to admit I'm scared.
I'm apprehensive. I'm concerned about this. This goes back to what I was speaking to earlier about conversations with my wife in the bedroom with her in that bedroom. While I don't like to admit it, I don't think any person's wants to. I'm more comfortable there admitting my concerns, my fears with her than anywhere else on this earth. That's what makes her best person I've ever met.
I'm not advocating that's what we should be looking for in the office, but what I am saying is people try to find the space to feel comfortable and to build trust. Give them that space. The goal here is not to remove somebody. It's to remove the hurdle that's holding the, the, the people in the, the situation or the organization back.
And if you do this in the right way, you will build a trust that is deeper than you can ever imagine. A professional trust, when you allow them space to answer the question that you've asked around, what else are we dealing with here?
And in doing so you can do these six things. So start with the realization of change behavior. Then move into this thought of what's disproportional in reaction. Listen for the repeated things. Go one level deeper. Kind of push into a little bit of questions. What you concern to you about this. Test it with further. As we mentioned I hear what you're talking about.
This is for something else we're dealing with. And could we do something together that might overcome that. And lastly, you have some silence so they can build an opportunity to choose if they can trust. What you'll do is what you'll change the ability for you to accomplish goals. And if the answer is you know what? They don't want to help you.
And they're deep hidden issues and challenges are not they're not going to be overcome by you, by them, by the situation, by others. That it's also an illuminating factor about, okay, what are other options to work through this? And by the way, when I talk about my situation at the beginning, that's what we had to deal with. It's like, how do we move around this?
Because we're not going to get the answers. We can't get past this. Reading the room and seeing people is not about being an amateur psychologist. I talked about that at the top. It's about wrecking, recognizing behaviors because they contain information. They can take data points about what's going on and when somebody is controlling or defensive, overly quiet or resistant, overly agreeable, or asking for too much analytical, so to speak, resisting change in ways that we don't understand, we need to ask the question, what's driving this?
There are hidden personal and professional things that affect behaviors and leaders. Whether you're a consultant like me, or a gift officer or board member or manager or whoever, when they do this well, they elevate the ability for the clearing of obstacles, the overcoming of challenges. The room is telling you more than you might realize if you pay attention, and in doing so, you can enhance your own skill sets, but also the ability to overcome problems and challenges.
And in doing so, make yourself more valuable. And this applies to the chief officer, to infrastructure, to gift officers, to board members, to executives. It's everybody. There is no immunity to this, including me. It's the ability for you to recognize it and figure out how to deal with it. That's what today was all about. And hopefully I've given you some tools, tricks to maybe think about it a little bit differently in allowing yourself to be more effective and help your organization be more effective.
And that's a good thing for everybody. Don't forget. Check out the blogs. Hallett philanthropy.com two per week, 90s a peace. Hallettphilanthropy.com backslash blogs. You can feed right to your inbox and you'd like to reach out to me. Maybe you have complaint. You're crazy. Randall, hear that? Every day in my own House podcast at Hallett philanthropy dot com. I really enjoy doing this.
In terms of my classroom, talking about different subjects, trying to help people if they're willing to listen or they think it's valuable. The point being is, is that I want you to be more successful. I want your organization to be more successful. And for the most part, I'm guessing most are nonprofit leaders or connected and with nonprofit organizations.
Because we need nonprofits, we need therapy to be better. We got a lot of people wondering what's happening in the world. Their world is moving too fast, too slow. It's turning. It's going the wrong way. Goes back to my old my favorite saying, some people make things happen. Some people watch things happen. Then those who wondered what happened.
Philanthropy, nonprofits. The work you do is all about doing something or someone else. The love of mankind. The definition of philanthropy, being someone who makes things happen for the people, and the things in our community that are wondering what happened that's valuable. I hope you sense that. I hope you feel that just a little bit today and every day, so that you know that you are important no matter what part of the organization you serve, that you're making a difference.
And in doing so, you're changing lives. And that is a great way to wake up every morning, go to bed every night knowing that you're a difference maker. For people who are wondering what happened. I'll look forward to seeing you the next time. Right back here on the next edition of Around with Randall. And don't forget. Make it a great day.